openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 22, Issue 13

Alvin Marcelo alvin.marcelo at gmail.com
Fri Feb 21 03:41:33 EST 2014


Hi Ian,

A regional approach might work for us in AeHIN. If the board can authorize
a regional provider, we can discuss details with them...but since it is an
openEHR certification, it should be Board-authorized...

alvin




On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:59 PM, <openehr-clinical-request at lists.openehr.org
> wrote:

> Send openEHR-clinical mailing list submissions to
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1 (Ian McNicoll)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 07:58:25 +0000
> From: Ian McNicoll <ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com>
> To: For openEHR clinical discussions
>         <openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org>
> Subject: Re: openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
> Message-ID:
>         <CAG-n1KxhTBaznXZ7xuEK-cYEG9pGpVbBFWgQsYem5=
> tL5j-n+Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Pablo / Evelyn,
>
> Some very good suggestions and proposals which I am sure the the Board
> would consider very carefully. There have been Board discussions about
> getting Training Certification established via an Academic Partnership
> group, but finding someone with the bandwidth to take this on has been
> difficult.
>
> My main concern is resource and funding. Everyone has to remember that the
> Foundation currently operates with zero income stream, and even when we
> start to get Industry Partners membership fees, these will be tightly
> ring-fenced to support API / RM / tooling development.
>
> It would be nice to think that the Foundation has resources to 'invest' in
> training certification but I do not see any immediate prospect of that
> being a reality. The only way that it is going to happen is if some
> individual / organisation sees setting up and running a training
> certification (endorsed by the Foundation) as a business opportunity.
>
> I agree with Evelyn that this is not a trivial task, particularly trying to
> work on a global basis, with appropriate governance structures and making
> sure that the system works fairly. It would have to work so that the
> Certifying body took some sort of percentage of course fees but would need
> quite a bit of investment of time and money to set up.
>
> I am not wholly convinced, at this point, that there is a big enough market
> in openEHR training (or enough providers) to make this a viable business,
> at least as a global activity. If there is local/regional interest, it
> might be possible to have training certification run on a regional basis,
> under the auspices of Localisation groups. This can also take advantage of
> local training certification/governance arrangements e.g in the UK there
> are some very tentative discussions to establish openEHR certification
> under the auspices of one of the UK Health informatics professional bodies.
> That seems to me much more managable.
>
> In summary, if a proposal for a global openEHR training certification
> service was received by the Board, I am sure it would be looked on
> favourably, but I am pretty certain it would need to be self-funding and
> personally I am not convinced that there is a sufficient market for openEHR
> training to make this sort of service viable at an international level.
>
> Sorry to sound negative but we do need to be realistic. The Board can offer
> support and 'validation' but realistically it is most unlikely to be able
> to offer investment.
> Ian
>
>
>
> On 21 February 2014 02:12, pablo pazos <pazospablo at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Evelyn,
> >
> >
> >
> > Many thanks for reminding us all about our previous discussions on this
> > topic.  I have just had a look at the openEHR Foundation Governance
> > structure and suggest we propose the establishment of an
> Education/Training
> > Program responsible to the openEHR Management Board
> >
> >
> > It's a wonderful idea. We can start the proposal by setting a template
> > structure like:
> >
> >
> >
> >    1. context: why are we doing this? what do we think is missing? how
> >    the objectives will help to spread openEHR (spreading the work should
> a
> >    common objective of all the programmes)
> >    2. objectives: what can we improve?
> >    3. plan & methodology: what should we do to reach the objectives?
> >    4. conditions: what we need to make this happen? from the foundation,
> >    from the community, funding, endorsement, sponsorships, ...
> >    5. time frame: when to start? when do we need to see results? (I would
> >    like to manage this as a project with concrete results and decisions
> taken
> >    in a constrained time frame)
> >    6. ...
> >    7. ...
> >
> >
> > who need to appoint a Program Leader (you may consider doing this? I'm
> > happy to be your deputy to get it all started and operational).
> >
> >
> > I can do the job, but only if I'm endorsed by the foundation and the
> > community. I would like to know what others think about this. I'm sure
> > there are a lot of people more capable than me on organizing this kinds
> of
> > things, I'm just a doer, not a politician nor a 100% academic guy :)
> >
> >
> > We need to generate suitable terms of reference to be agreed to by the
> > openEHR Foundation Board.  For example we need to work closely with the
> > other Program leaders who should be able to assist in identifying some
> > unique roles to get us started in a proper educationally sound manner.
> >
> >
> > Totally agree, e.g. localization is key on training, so we need to be
> > close to the localization programme (right now we're a little stuck
> there.
> > Personally, I'm trying to coordinate some common actions with openEHR
> > Brazil, where I'm acting as coordinator to the openEHR in spanish
> > community).
> >
> >
> >   The focus needs to be on minimum core knowledge/skill requirements for
> > each role. There needs to be a fair bit of flexibility in terms of how
> the
> > training/education is delivered.
> >
> >
> >
> > Do you mean knowledge for people participating in the Education Programme
> > ? Or the skill set a trainer should have? What are those "roles" you
> > mention?
> >
> >
> > The biggest issue I see is funding, as we need someone to manage such a
> > program, especially once the openEHR Foundation gets into a
> > certification/licensing/accreditation program as this is heavily reliant
> on
> > a proper governance structure.  Also the competency standards themselves
> > need to be maintained and updated from time to time. Australian has
> several
> > Government funded Industry Skills Councils who take on these tasks. An
> > alternative is for the openEHR Foundation to simply set the standards via
> > its program and outsource the certification/accreditation process on a
> user
> > pays basis.  I guess we need to develop a business case?  I'll have a go
> at
> > that. There are many issues to consider so documenting it in some
> organised
> > way should assist the openEHR Foundation in their decision making.
> >
> >
> > IMO, the first step is to have a group of people interested in education
> > and certification of openEHR related knowledge / skill sets, to create
> the
> > programme. Then I think we need to come up with different educational
> > levels (basic/introductory, intermediate, advanced, expert), different
> > roles (clinical, informatician, project management, knowledge management,
> > ...), and the matching topics we consider should be taught to those
> roles,
> > for each level (is a matrix).
> >
> >
> > Then we can analyze different kinds of educational sessions that can be
> > done: workshops, master classes, courses (long/short),
> talks/presentations,
> > ... for each of these kinds we can propose some kind of formal
> > certification from openEHR foundation.
> >
> >
> > Of course, we need to have a place to think about how and who will train
> > trainers than can give those kinds of sessions, to get a certificate from
> > openEHR foundation.
> >
> >
> > Then think about costs, funding, how the foundation will get money in
> > interchange of endorsing the training instances and certifications, how
> > much that will cost (IMO should be based on a %). But we can have courses
> > in one hand, and exams in the other (is like when getting certified with
> > PMP from PMI you pay for the course and for the exam).
> >
> >
> > Also, I think is key that we reach a common core of topics that should be
> > taught in all the introductory/intermediate courses, then each educator
> can
> > make local changes. But I don't know if we can agree on having a common
> > basic set of materials (presentations, documents, papers, practices,
> etc).
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps we can get Gov't and other stakeholder funding as it is in their
> > interest to have a suitably skilled  workforce????  We should also
> explore
> > grant opportunities.
> >
> >
> > If there's real interest of having a formal way of train and certificate
> > students, I think all I mentioned before doesn't need to be funded. I
> think
> > is the investment we have to do to be endorsed by the foundation to train
> > people. I would love to have an "openEHR foundation logo" on the openEHR
> > course in spanish I've designed more than 4 years ago as an "openEHR
> > foundation approved" course, and give certificates formally approved by
> > openEHR foundation. I'm sure that can bring us to the next level in
> openEHR
> > education. And I'm sure my course can be complemented by other courses,
> > english based also! And I would love to recommend other "endorser by
> > openEHR foundation" courses to my students, so they can improve their
> > skills.
> >
> >
> > The main problem I see right now is how we engage openEHR boards to take
> > action and decide on this things. Of course, presenting the proposal to
> > create the programme committee will be the first step!
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Pablo.
> >
> >
> >
> > Evelyn
> >
> >
> >
> > [image: EHE logo tree]
> >
> >
> >
> > Prof Evelyn J.S.Hovenga,
> >
> > CEO, Director & Trainer
> >
> > *eHealth Education Pty Ltd, RTO 32279*
> > (trading as RSC Training and eHE Training)
> >
> > :  PO Box 9783,  Frenchville Qld 4701
> >
> > *  e.hovenga at ehe.edu.au
> > ?  0408309839  '  1300 285 512
> > 8  www.ehe.edu.au  & www.ehetraining.edu.au
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* openEHR-clinical [mailto:
> > openehr-clinical-bounces at lists.openehr.org] *On Behalf Of *pablo pazos
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 20 February 2014 1:14 PM
> > *To:* openEHR Clinical
> > *Subject:* RE: openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Evelyn,
> >
> > We had a long discussion a while ago (Jan 2012), we even created a wiki
> > page, but we didn't get further, IMO because we don't have a clear view
> of
> > the certification mechanisms from the foundation.
> >
> > I'd love to see and participate in an openEHR SIG, but some questions
> > arises:
> >
> > Who will coordinate that? How do we engage people to participate? Who
> will
> > validate the decisions of the SIG and make them formal? e.g. endorsed by
> > openEHR foundation, who can participate? who has the right to say who has
> > the knowledge and capability to be part of the SIG? I can continue :)
> but I
> > think I mentioned these a lot of times and got no clear answer, so it
> seems
> > I don't ask the right questions, or maybe this is not the place to ask
> > those question, or (I'm afraid of this last option) the foundation
> > representatives doesn't know the answers.
> >
> > As an example, right now there are a lot of groups formally created for
> > each programme, but we still don't know what can we decide and how those
> > decisions will be endorsed by the foundation. Also participation is
> erratic
> > because our little free time available.
> >
> > This is the exchange we had a while ago:
> >
> >
> http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/2012-January/006527.html
> >
> > --
> > Kind regards,
> > Eng. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez
> > http://cabolabs.com <http://cabolabs.com/es/home>
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > From: ehovenga at gmail.com
> > To: openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org
> > Subject: RE: openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
> > Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 15:43:27 +1000
> >
> > Clearly there are many  openEHR training providers.  May I suggest that
> > the openEHR foundation consider setting the standards that graduates  of
> > such training programs need to be able to comply with?  This includes
> > stating what competencies are needed for the various job roles but also
> how
> > to certify trainers themselves to ensure quality and consistency.  The
> > openEHR Foundation could consider providing an endorsement mechanism for
> > training organisations.  An openEHR SIG could develop these standards.
> >
> >
> >
> > Individual countries have their own system of regulating
> > training/education quality based on educational standards.  For example
> we
> > are a registered training organisation (RTO) in Australia able to
> develop a
> > curriculum that may be accredited by our national regulator who then
> > approves us to issue an agreed nationally recognised qualification that
> > fits with the Australian Qualifications Framework (AQF). All Universities
> > and other training providers need to comply with that.  We also have
> > specific requirements on how to write a competency standard - see
> >
> http://www.nssc.natese.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0014/71303/TxtCompStandardSection.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> > We have experience working with ITHSDO and HL7 regarding their
> > certification programs.  I also undertake accreditation of University
> > ICT/SE programs for the Australian Computer Society and manage our RTO.
> >  We're happy to participate.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards, Evelyn
> >
> >
> >
> > [image: EHE logo tree]
> >
> >
> >
> > Prof Evelyn J.S.Hovenga,
> >
> > CEO, Director & Trainer
> >
> > *eHealth Education Pty Ltd, RTO 32279*
> > (trading as RSC Training and eHE Training)
> >
> > :  PO Box 9783,  Frenchville Qld 4701
> >
> > *  e.hovenga at ehe.edu.au
> > ?  0408309839  '  1300 285 512
> > 8  www.ehe.edu.au  & www.ehetraining.edu.au
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* openEHR-clinical [
> > mailto:openehr-clinical-bounces at lists.openehr.org<
> openehr-clinical-bounces at lists.openehr.org>]
> > *On Behalf Of *Jussara
> > *Sent:* Saturday, 15 February 2014 6:05 AM
> > *To:* For openEHR clinical discussions
> > *Cc:* openEHR Clinical
> > *Subject:* Re: openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
> >
> >
> >
> > We also provide training in openEHR with HL7 Brazil. This year we will
> > provide the first Online course. We give also in company training.
> >
> > The Brazilian Health informatics association has introduced a HIT
> >  professional certificate two years ago- ProTICS, where knowledge of
> > clinical models   Is  one of the desired skills to a health informaticiN,
> > but is generic. Openehr Brasil is trying to Building a certificate
> project,
> > but we want that it could be   internationally acknowledged, and the only
> > way is pushing the foundation to tackle this issue. My suggestion is to
> > create a SiG to organize that.  I will propose this on next ?nterim board
> > meeting.
> >
> > Volunteers?
> >
> > Jussara
> >
> >
> >
> > Enviado via iPad
> >
> >
> > Em Feb 14, 2014, ?s 4:18 PM, pablo pazos <pazospablo at hotmail.com>
> > escreveu:
> >
> > Hi Alvin,
> >
> >
> >
> > We (CaboLabs.com) do openEHR training in spanish with ACHISA.org (Chilean
> > Association of Healthcare Informatics. ACHISA gives a certificate from
> the
> > association, but right now there is no formal certificate from openEHR
> > itself. The course is online, and the fourth edition will start on April
> > 2014. We have a waiting list for the course:
> >
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dDlLUmpMX0pzaHJzZ21FMGVLN1dMUWc6MQ#gid=0
> >
> >
> >
> > More info:
> >
> http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/2012/01/conclusiones-del-curso-de-openehen.html
> <
> http://informatica-medica.blogspot.com/2012/01/conclusiones-del-curso-de-openehr-en.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > As Ian said, Ocean gives training and certificates also, those instances
> > are english-based. There are some videos of their training instances on
> > YouTube. I totally recommend you to take a look at that.
> >
> >
> >
> > Have a nice weekend!
> >
> > --
> > Kind regards,
> > Eng. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez
> > http://cabolabs.com <http://cabolabs.com/es/home>
> >
> > > From: ian.mcnicoll at gmail.com
> > > Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:59:59 +0000
> > > Subject: Re: openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 22, Issue 1
> > > To: openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org
> > >
> > > Hi Alvin,
> > >
> > > There have been some discussions abut formal openEHR training
> > > accreditation but nothing concrete has emerged. The individual
> > > companies like Ocean and Cabolabs that offer training can offer
> > > certificates of attendance/training.
> > >
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > On 13 February 2014 09:24, Alvin Marcelo <alvin.marcelo at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Just Wanted to know if there's is a certification training/program
> for
> > > > openehr?
> > > >
> > > > On Feb 13, 2014 5:18 PM, <openehr-clinical-request at lists.openehr.org
> >
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Send openEHR-clinical mailing list submissions to
> > > >> openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org
> > > >>
> > > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > >>
> > > >>
> >
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org
> > > >>
> > > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > >> openehr-clinical-request at lists.openehr.org
> > > >>
> > > >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > >> openehr-clinical-owner at lists.openehr.org
> > > >>
> > > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > >> than "Re: Contents of openEHR-clinical digest..."
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Today's Topics:
> > > >>
> > > >> 1. Representing HbA1c result (mmol/mol) in AE (Koray Atalag)
> > > >> 2. Re: Representing HbA1c result (mmol/mol) in AE (Diego Bosc?)
> > > >> 3. Re: Representing HbA1c result (mmol/mol) in AE (Diego Bosc?)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Message: 1
> > > >> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:30:48 +0000
> > > >> From: Koray Atalag <k.atalag at nihi.auckland.ac.nz>
> > > >> To: For openEHR clinical discussions <openehr-clinical at openehr.org>
> > > >> Subject: Representing HbA1c result (mmol/mol) in AE
> > > >> Message-ID:
> > > >>
> > > >> <
> > B1CE708E5C614F4BB990E32CC5F03AD4706B4B4C at uxcn10-tdc01.UoA.auckland.ac.nz
> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi,
> > > >>
> > > >> Any idea how to choose mmol/mol for HbA1c result using DV_QUANTITY
> in
> > > >> Archetype Editor?
> > > >> It used to be a proportion (%) but now the international agreement
> is
> > to
> > > >> use this unit which does not come as an option. Wonder if I exists
> in
> > UCUM?
> > > >> This is such a commonly used Lab item - I'm sure someone else must
> > have
> > > >> hit the issue.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cheers,
> > > >>
> > > >> -koray
> > > >>
> > > >> -------------- next part --------------
> > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > >> URL:
> > > >> <
> >
> http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20140213/321750a1/attachment-0001.html
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> ------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Message: 2
> > > >> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:16:39 +0100
> > > >> From: Diego Bosc? <yampeku at gmail.com>
> > > >> To: For openEHR clinical discussions
> > > >> <openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org>
> > > >> Cc: For openEHR clinical discussions <openehr-clinical at openehr.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Representing HbA1c result (mmol/mol) in AE
> > > >> Message-ID:
> > > >>
> > > >> <CAFx8UwBTEWAZuy=-wdu1JbpSuP2bOMejH6YuBC40z6vX6=b6Gg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Koray,
> > > >>
> > > >> UCUM is extensible, you can define new units as long as you follow
> its
> > > >> syntax. In this case you are lucky, as mmol/mol (MilliMolesPerMole)
> is
> > > >> already used as UCUM unit. You can check it here:
> > > >> http://www.hl7.de/download/documents/ucum/ucumdata.html
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I think I also added all these units as valid UCUM units on LinkEHR
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> [image: Im?genes integradas 1]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Which is represented in ADL as:
> > > >>
> > > >> C_DV_QUANTITY <
> > > >> property =
> > > >> <[openehr::507]>
> > > >> list = <
> > > >> ["1"] = <
> > > >> units =
> > > >> <"mmol/mol">
> > > >> magnitude =
> > > >> <|0.0..200.0|>
> > > >> precision = <|0|>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Hope this helps :)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> 2014-02-13 4:30 GMT+01:00 Koray Atalag <
> k.atalag at nihi.auckland.ac.nz
> > >:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hi,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Any idea how to choose mmol/mol for HbA1c result using DV_QUANTITY
> > in
> > > >> > Archetype Editor?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It used to be a proportion (%) but now the international agreement
> > is to
> > > >> > use this unit which does not come as an option. Wonder if I exists
> > in
> > > >> > UCUM?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This is such a commonly used Lab item - I'm sure someone else must
> > have
> > > >> > hit the issue.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Cheers,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -koray
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > openEHR-clinical mailing list
> > > >> > openEHR-clinical at lists.openehr.org
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> >
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org
> > > >> >
> > > >> -------------- next part --------------
> > > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > >> URL:
> > > >> <
> >
> http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20140213/e3a87d80/attachment-0001.html
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> ------------------------------
> > > >>
> > > >> Message: 3
> > > >> Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:16:39 +0100
> > > >> From: Diego Bosc? <yampeku at gmail.com>
> > > >> To: For openEHR clinical discussions
> > > >> <openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org>
> > > >> Cc: For openEHR clinical discussions <openehr-clinical at openehr.org>
> > > >> Subject: Re: Representing HbA1c result (mmol/mol) in AE
> > > >> Message-ID:
> > > >>
> > > >> <CAFx8UwBTEWAZuy=-wdu1JbpSuP2bOMejH6YuBC40z6vX6=b6Gg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> > > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Koray,
> > > >>
> > > >> UCUM is extensible, you can define new units as long as you follow
> its
> > > >> syntax. In this case you are lucky, as mmol/mol (MilliMolesPerMole)
> is
> > > >> already used as UCUM unit. You can check it here:
> > > >> http://www.hl7.de/download/documents/ucum/ucumdata.html
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I think I also added all these units as valid UCUM units on LinkEHR
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> [image: Im?genes integradas 1]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Which is represented in ADL as:
> > > >>
> > > >> C_DV_QUANTITY <
> > > >> property =
> > > >> <[openehr::507]>
> > > >> list = <
> > > >> ["1"] = <
> > > >> units =
> > > >> <"mmol/mol">
> > > >> magnitude =
> > > >> <|0.0..200.0|>
> > > >> precision = <|0|>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Hope this helps :)
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> 2014-02-13 4:30 GMT+01:00 Koray Atalag <
> k.atalag at nihi.auckland.ac.nz
> > >:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hi,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Any idea how to choose mmol/mol for HbA1c result using DV_QUANTITY
> > in
> > > >> > Archetype Editor?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > It used to be a proportion (%) but now the international agreement
> > is to
> > > >> > use this unit which does not come as an option. Wonder if I exists
> > in
> > > >> > UCUM?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This is such a commonly used Lab item - I'm sure someone else must
> > have
> > > >> > hit the issue.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Cheers,
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -koray
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > openEHR-clinical mailing list
> > > >> > openEHR-clinical at lists.openehr.org
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> >
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org
> > > >> >
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> > > --
> > > Dr Ian McNicoll
> > > office / fax +44(0)141 560 4657
> > > mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
> > > skype ianmcnicoll
> > > ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com
> > > ian at mcmi.co.uk
> > >
> > > Clinical Analyst Ocean Informatics
> > > Honorary Senior Research Associate, CHIME, University College London
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