openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 41, Issue 8

Julian Lim julianhtun at gmail.com
Sat Sep 19 12:49:20 EDT 2015


Please unsubscribe me from all OpenEHR list.  Yes, I tried unsubscribing it
from the link but never have any success.

Thanks.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 11:40 AM, William Goossen <wgoossen at results4care.nl>
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Great references and food discussion!
>
> But, I must admit that I do not believe in any universal truths and I do
> distrust anyone assuming to have one. So the point should be imho to
> question if BFO is useful?  definitely, but universal truth???? No way.!
> Is use of ontology necessary for learning about reality? Of course. And
> can it help with information modeling as abstraction of reality ?  That
> point was made in the on this list very heavily critiqued paper by Blobel,
> Brochhausen and myself a year ago. It is good to see the OpenEHR community
> look different and more positively at this aspect of two level modeling[1].
>
> [1]
>
> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1386505613002013
>
>
> Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards,
>
>
> dr. William T.F. Goossen
>
>
> directeur Results 4 Care B.V.
> De Stinse 15
> 3823 VM Amersfoort
> the Netherlands
>
> telefoon +31654614458
>
> e-mail: wgoossen at results4care.nl
> DCMHelpdesk at results4care.eu
> skype: williamgoossenmobiel
> kamer van koophandel 32133713
> http://www.results4care.nl
> http://www.results4care.eu
> http://results4care.wikispaces.com/
> http://www.linkedin.com/company/711047
> http://results4care.wikispaces.com/3.+Cursussen+Nederlands
> ------------------------------
> Van: openehr-clinical-request at lists.openehr.org
> Verzonden: ‎19-‎9-‎2015 18:00
> Aan: openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org
> Onderwerp: openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 41, Issue 8
>
> Send openEHR-clinical mailing list submissions to
> openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org
>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> openehr-clinical-request at lists.openehr.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> openehr-clinical-owner at lists.openehr.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of openEHR-clinical digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. RE: book recommendation - basic formal ontology (BFO) for
>       biomedicine (Koray Atalag)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 12:17:55 +0000
> From: Koray Atalag <k.atalag at auckland.ac.nz>
> To: For openEHR clinical discussions
> <openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org>
> Subject: RE: book recommendation - basic formal ontology (BFO) for
> biomedicine
> Message-ID:
> <B1CE708E5C614F4BB990E32CC5F03AD4DBF45905 at uxcn10-6.UoA.auckland.ac.nz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I think within the timeframe stated by Tom we will definitely see these
> two worlds coming closer and producing some tangible benefits. Did you all
> notice an increase in research in this area these days? Just my quick 2
> cents....still on travel
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> -koray
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: openEHR-clinical [openehr-clinical-bounces at lists.openehr.org] on
> behalf of Thomas Beale [thomas.beale at oceaninformatics.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, 8 September 2015 7:14 p.m.
> To: For openEHR clinical discussions
> Subject: Re: book recommendation - basic formal ontology (BFO) for
> biomedicine
>
>
> Daniel,
>
> nice observations and thanks for the references - I had intended to
> circulate the first one as well, at some point. For my part, I think
> ontology will become useful in information modelling precisely for the
> reason that it offers ways of representing distinctions between real world
> referents and the things that refer to them (information entities). In
> other words, to help the IT sector understand 'how to model'. Historically
> it has been completely confused (I would go so far as to say not even
> conscious) of the difference between real world entities and events and the
> information items that document them.
>
> With no understanding of the in-principle divide between ontological and
> epistemological points of view (or equivalently of Popper's 3 worlds),
> information modelling can't possibly achieve much clarity or computability.
>
> So in agreeing with you, I would add that ontology-thinking is not a
> recipe for how to do information modelling, but it is useful for
> understanding what not to express in information models - mind-independent
> truths.
>
> - thomas
>
> On 08/09/2015 01:23, Daniel Karlsson wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> agree partly with Ian's assessment, i.e. about the messiness. While I much
> appreciate what I have read, and I've had much help from earlier texts from
> the authors (as I'm sure I will from this book), there is in the medical
> informatics community a widespread belief that the position held by (some
> part of) the BFO community is undisputed and sort-of final. There are still
> issues which requires careful consideration, especially regarding
> information artefacts and the is-about relationship [1, 2], but also about
> e.g. dispositions [3], and functions [4].
>
> Additionally, while ontologies deal with what is universally true, it is
> my belief that universal truth takes, and should take, the back seat
> compared to user needs and practicality in information modelling.
> First-world (using Popper's ontology [5]) ontologies are outcomes of our
> understanding of the physical world and evolve as science evolves (at least
> good ones). Information models and other second-third-world ontologies are
> always constructs and, like with fictional characters, nothing can be
> discovered by examining those models in addition to what has been
> explicitly stated. For this reason, ontology as a method isn't as helpful
> for information modellers as it is for others.
>
> 1.
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266021648_An_Ontological_Analysis_of_Reference_in_Health_Record_Statements
>
> 2. http://www.amazon.com/Aboutness-Carl-G-Hempel-Lecture/dp/0691144958
>
> 3. http://www.amazon.com/Dispositions-Stephen-Mumford/dp/0199259828
>
> 4.
> http://www.amazon.com/Functions-Biological-Artificial-Worlds-Philosophical/dp/026211321X
>
> 5. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popper%27s_three_worlds
>
> /Daniel
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20150919/b15e5a75/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> openEHR-clinical mailing list
> openEHR-clinical at lists.openehr.org
>
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of openEHR-clinical Digest, Vol 41, Issue 8
> ***********************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> openEHR-clinical mailing list
> openEHR-clinical at lists.openehr.org
>
> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org
>



-- 
-Julian
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20150919/7aba4d5d/attachment-0002.html>


More information about the openEHR-clinical mailing list