Alive vs Dead

Beatriz de Faria Leao bfleao at
Tue Jan 5 18:43:12 EST 2016

Wonderful discussion.

 I go with Eric - “Is deceased”  or  “Has died” ? [ Using both supports future recording of post-cryogenic or other types of resurrections ;-) ]

Here in Brazil at our national database with 220 M we use the HL7 demographic approach. I agree this ADT death is different from the death event - I think it would be could to have an archetype to describe the death event - but this is something else..

I wish you all a wonderful 2016! Full of discussions!!


> On Jan 5, 2016, at 6:57 PM, Bert Verhees <bert.verhees at> wrote:
> I understand Thomas, just some arguments make me smile, like this one:
> "alive equals not-dead"
> I am glad I am just a programmer. ;-)
> On 05-01-16 21:27, Thomas Beale wrote:
>> Most of these are 'ontological' discussions, i.e. discussions about all the weird things that could possibly happen in reality. We need to remember that we are not generally trying to model all that complexity, but just the general structures for what needs to be written down at specific points in time by admin and / or clinical staff. Those 'notes' need to be designed generically enough that they will cope with all these variations. Making most of the data items optional is a basic way to do some of that...
>>  - thomas
>> On 05/01/2016 15:39, Bert Verhees wrote:
>>> My two cents.
>>> Kafka would have loved this discussion, but he is dead.
>>> I think dead is a state, not an event with a date. Dying is an event.
>>> Even when you don't know the date of dying, there can be proof a person is dead.
>>> And even when there is no proof of a person being dead, there is law that says that a person can be declared dead, even when there is no proof, even when there is no date of dying known.
>>> This happens sometimes with missing persons, missing in a fire, missing at sea, missing in the wild, etc.
>>> Bert
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