Re-purposing archetypes? [was Re: Machine Learning , some thoughts)

Thomas Beale thomas.beale at
Fri Jun 29 04:26:45 EDT 2018

On 28/06/2018 15:49, Bert Verhees wrote:
> That could be possible, but then you get structure, and 
> node-identifiers. Maybe just flat paths are more convenient, so that 
> the OBSERVATION archetypes do not require CLUSTERS but ITEMs so that 
> it is possible to include ELEMENTs on that point. I don't understand 
> the restriction in a slot for allowing only CLUSTER, especially if 
> that slot has an occurrence of *
> But also I don't see an OBSERVATION archetype which is equipped for 
> sports or lifestyle.
> The problem is that I don't have customers for this, because they get 
> scared away, when seeing CKM, they think it is not for them. They 
> think it is for healthcare problems.
> Like CKM has a lot of archetypes for all kind of OBSERVATIONs, but all 
> related to problems, it should have an archetype for a not 
> problem-related OBSERVATIONs.

Well there is no problem to do that - there is nothing specifically in 
the OBSERVATION model that mentions health problem; OBSERVATION is 
really just a 3-way structure of data/state/protocol for recording one 
or more samples of an datum. It's quite well adapted in fact to sports 
data, because the data attribute can record a time-series of a datum (or 
more than one) from the body, say heart rate and breathing, and the 
state (remember, 'state' means patient state) can record data items from 
e.g. a treadmill, e.g. a computed work rate or maybe the stroke rate on 
a rowing machine. So if you want to study heart rate and breathing 
against physical work rate, the data structures are very convenient.

> Maybe more neutral, an archetype for food intake without mentioning 
> the term Obesity.

I assume you are referring to the documentation more than the structures 
- that's probably a good point. If an archetype can equally be used for 
a problem (obesity) as well as a wellness program (general diet 
tracking) then it should be documented to have those possible uses.

> Then it could attract vendors which work on the fast growing 
> market-segment for sports and lifestyle.
> How good would it be when the machinery for OpenEhr becomes available 
> for this market-segment? The flexibility, the model-based queries, the 
> data-storage, all the advantages for OpenEhr.
> And also think of INSTRUCTION-archetypes to notate sport-plans, and 
> workout out well. And ACTION archetypes to record the proceedings.

I would expect most INstructions and Actions to be specific for sport.
> And because sports and leisure is very closely related to 
> problem-centric healthcare, it is OpenEhr which can be ready to fill 
> up the market-gap that now exist.
> So, how about that?

I think  you have a good point about the documented uses of archetypes 
potentially being too narrow - it would be worth a global review to see 
if anything already there can be used for purposes different from that 
originally envisaged. I wonder if clinical modellers have anything to 
say about this.

- thomas

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