<div dir="ltr">Thanks Ian for the quick response. <div>From practical point of view you are right.</div><div>I think we need follow this advice.<br></div><div><br></div><div>But now let's look at it from the Reference Model or LOINC point of view, maybe there some change would be welcome.</div><div><br></div><div>The problem is that different used units in measurements which are exact the same for the rest (method, substance, purpose), sometimes translate to a different LOINC-code.<br><div><br></div><div><div>In openEHR-archetypes (mostly used to build software) we want to constrain the sender in the units he can choose. We don' t want our software to translate every possible unit to the unit we want to process. So that is why we offer some units for the sender to choose from. This constraining is done in DV-QUANTITY, following the openEHR-specs it is in UCUM syntax (it does not say UCUM-unit <a href="http://www.openehr.org/releases/RM/Release-1.0.3/docs/data_types/data_types.html#_dv_quantity_class">http://www.openehr.org/releases/RM/Release-1.0.3/docs/data_types/data_types.html#_dv_quantity_class</a> ).<br></div><div><br></div><div>To be sure that the sender is using the constrained units and measuring the constrained item we need some coding. I was worried because of some discussion on an OpenEHR list in 2014, which discussed a similar problem. ( <a href="http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org/2014-November/003393.html">http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-clinical_lists.openehr.org/2014-November/003393.html</a> )</div><div><br></div><div>So, imho, the possibility to add LOINC-coding (or coding in general) to different unit-kinds in the dv_quantity-class to tell us what we are looking at, would be a good feature to support interoperability. <br><div><br><div>Bert Verhees</div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">Op wo 15 feb. 2017 om 11:53 schreef Ian McNicoll <<a href="mailto:ian@freshehr.com">ian@freshehr.com</a>>:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg">Hi Bert,<div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_msg">I don't think this is helpful. The source of truth in dv_quantity should always be the unit. I would not trust the LOINC code. It should be the responsibility of the original sender/documenter to make sure the correct LOINC code was used to match the SI unit. I would think this advice would apply whether one was using hl7v2, FHIR, CDA or openEHR.</div><div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_msg">Ian</div><div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div></div><div class="gmail_extra gmail_msg"><br clear="all" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg"><div class="m_8081715381084021581gmail_signature gmail_msg" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg">Dr Ian McNicoll<br class="gmail_msg">mobile <a href="tel:+44%207752%20097859" value="+447752097859" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">+44 (0)775 209 7859</a><br class="gmail_msg">office <a href="tel:+44%201536%20414994" value="+441536414994" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">+44 (0)1536 414994</a><br class="gmail_msg">skype: ianmcnicoll<br class="gmail_msg">email: <a href="mailto:ian@freshehr.com" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">ian@freshehr.com</a><br class="gmail_msg">twitter: @ianmcnicoll<br class="gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class="gmail_msg"></span></div><div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class="gmail_msg"><img src="https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0BzLo3mNUvbAjUmNWaFZYZlZ5djg&revid=0BzLo3mNUvbAjRzZKc0JpUXl2SkRtMDJ0bkdUcUQxM2dqSVdrPQ" width="96" height="30" class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></span></div><div class="gmail_msg"><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px" class="gmail_msg">Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation <a href="mailto:ian.mcnicoll@openehr.org" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">ian.mcnicoll@openehr.org</a></span></div><div class="gmail_msg">Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.<br class="gmail_msg">Director, HANDIHealth CIC<br class="gmail_msg">Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote gmail_msg"></div></div><div class="gmail_extra gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote gmail_msg">On 15 February 2017 at 10:37, Bert Verhees <span dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><<a href="mailto:bert.verhees@rosa.nl" class="gmail_msg" target="_blank">bert.verhees@rosa.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br class="gmail_msg"></div></div><div class="gmail_extra gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_quote gmail_msg"><blockquote class="gmail_quote gmail_msg" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg">Hi all,</div><div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div>When you work with quantities it is possbile to add more units, sometimes, the use of different units have other LOINC-coding, this is for example with<div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_msg"><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px" class="gmail_msg">LOINC:</span><br class="m_8081715381084021581m_8953073866769638395gmail_msg gmail_msg" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px"><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px" class="gmail_msg">LOINC LongName                </span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px" class="gmail_msg">                              </span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px" class="gmail_msg">            Component    Scale      exUCUMunits</span><br class="m_8081715381084021581m_8953073866769638395gmail_msg gmail_msg" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px"><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px" class="gmail_msg">2160-0 Creatinine [Mass/volume] in Serum or Plasma        Creatinine      Qn         mg/dL</span><br class="m_8081715381084021581m_8953073866769638395gmail_msg gmail_msg" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px"><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);font-family:"segoe ui";font-size:13.3333px" class="gmail_msg">14682-9 Creatinine [Moles/volume] in Serum or Plasma      Creatinine     Qn         umol/L</span> </div><div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_msg">Would it be good if it was possible to add code per unit-kind in dv_quantity?<br class="gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_msg">Or are there other suggestions</div><div class="gmail_msg"><br class="gmail_msg"></div><div class="gmail_msg">Thanks</div><span class="m_8081715381084021581HOEnZb gmail_msg"><font color="#888888" class="gmail_msg"><div class="gmail_msg">Bert Verhees</div></font></span></div>
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