AW: Seeking clarification regarding Assumed value

Sebastian Garde sebastian.garde at oceaninformatics.com
Tue Oct 9 05:29:29 EDT 2018


Assumed value was a slick idea at the time, but I do agree with your sentiments now:

  *   it is hardly or not at all processable,
  *   where there is widespread consensus on something it may well be assumed automatically by clinicians – but this is not because someone put the assumed value in the archetype or not.
  *   Elements where such consensus exists across professions/sectors are probably rare anyway and universal consensus on an assumption is hard to ascertain
  *   challenges for UI
  *   challenges for querying (assuming you even dare)
  *   challenges for anybody to understand it, including the difference to a default value (and what happens if there is both).

Not sure about the implications for dropping/deprecating this at this stage

Sebastian

Von: openEHR-technical <openehr-technical-bounces at lists.openehr.org> Im Auftrag von Ian McNicoll
Gesendet: Montag, 8. Oktober 2018 14:43
An: For openEHR clinical discussions <openehr-clinical at lists.openehr.org>
Cc: For openEHR technical discussions <openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org>
Betreff: Re: Seeking clarification regarding Assumed value

I asked for this to be changed as we had dropped inspired oxygen into a cluster archetype (intended to sit in state and wanted to be able to state the assumed value of 23% (or whatever).

I have come round to thinking that Assumed value is actually unhelpful. It is only a statement on the archetype and never ends up in the data, and completely non-processable. I think it can be easily misunderstood and is often very difficult to assert reliably. I would not be unhappy it see it dropped.

We will however definitely need default values in specialisations e.g the lab series.

Ian


Ian


Dr Ian McNicoll
mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859
office +44 (0)1536 414994
skype: ianmcnicoll
email: ian at freshehr.com<mailto:ian at freshehr.com>
twitter: @ianmcnicoll

[https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0BzLo3mNUvbAjUmNWaFZYZlZ5djg&revid=0BzLo3mNUvbAjRzZKc0JpUXl2SkRtMDJ0bkdUcUQxM2dqSVdrPQ]
Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnicoll at openehr.org<mailto:ian.mcnicoll at openehr.org>
Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd.
Director, HANDIHealth CIC
Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL


On Mon, 8 Oct 2018 at 13:23, Peter Gummer <peter.gummer at gmail.com<mailto:peter.gummer at gmail.com>> wrote:
> On 8 Oct 2018, at 23:09, Peter Gummer <peter.gummer at gmail.com<mailto:peter.gummer at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> ...Attached to this email is the CLUSTER that Ian attached to the Jira issue.

Hmmm, I don’t think this mailing list accepts attachments. Here is the CLUSTER as ADL.

Peter


archetype (adl_version=1.4)
        openEHR-EHR-CLUSTER.ambient_oxygen.v1

concept
        [at0000]        -- Ambient oxygen
language
        original_language = <[ISO_639-1::en]>
        translations = <
                ["de"] = <
                        language = <[ISO_639-1::de]>
                        author = <
                                ["organisation"] = <"University of Heidelberg, Central Queensland University">
                                ["name"] = <"Jasmin Buck, Sebastian Garde">
                        >
                >
        >
description
        original_author = <
                ["name"] = <"Ian McNicoll">
                ["organisation"] = <"Ocean Informatics">
                ["email"] = <"ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com<mailto:ian.mcnicoll at oceaninformatics.com>">
                ["date"] = <"08/06/2009">
        >
        details = <
                ["en"] = <
                        language = <[ISO_639-1::en]>
                        purpose = <"To record the amount of oxygen being delivered to the subject at the time of observation.  Assumed values of 21% O2, Fi02 of 0.21 and Oxygen flow rate of zero.">
                        use = <"May be used within an ACTION archetype to specificy oxygen therapy , or within OBSERVATION archetypes such as Blood gases or Respirations, as part of patient state, where knowledge of ambient oxygen status is critical to interpretation of the observation.


">
                        keywords = <"breathing", "oxygen">
                        misuse = <"">
                        copyright = <"copyright (c) 2009 openEHR Foundation">
                >
        >
        lifecycle_state = <"AuthorDraft">
        other_contributors = <"Heather Leslie Ocean Informatics", "Sebastian Garde Ocean Informatics", "Andrew James University of Toronto", "Sundarasan Jaganathan NHS Scotland", "Omer Hotomargolu Turkey", "Marja Buur Medisch Centrum Alkmaar Netherlands", "Gregory Caulton PatientOS Inc.", "Anne Harbison CPCER", "Sam Heard Ocean Informatics">
        other_details = <
                ["references"] = <"">
                ["MD5-CAM-1.0.1"] = <"1FCF286B5D47164C5D89907DF332BC65">
        >

definition
        CLUSTER[at0000] matches {       -- Ambient oxygen
                items cardinality matches {0..*; unordered} matches {
                        ELEMENT[at0051] occurrences matches {0..1} matches {    -- Oxygen flow rate
                                value matches {
                                        C_DV_QUANTITY <
                                                property = <[openehr::126]>
                                                list = <
                                                        ["1"] = <
                                                                units = <"l/m">
                                                                magnitude = <|0.0..50.0|>
                                                                precision = <|1|>
                                                        >
                                                        ["2"] = <
                                                                units = <"ml/min">
                                                                magnitude = <|0.0..50000.0|>
                                                                precision = <|1|>
                                                        >
                                                >
                                                assumed_value = <
                                                        magnitude = <0.0>
                                                        units = <"l/m">
                                                        precision = <1>
                                                >
                                        >
                                }
                        }
                        ELEMENT[at0052] occurrences matches {0..1} matches {    -- FiO2
                                value matches {
                                        DV_PROPORTION matches {
                                                numerator matches {|0.0..1.0|}
                                                is_integral matches {False}
                                                type matches {1}
                                        }
                                }
                        }
                        ELEMENT[at0053] occurrences matches {0..1} matches {    -- Percent O2
                                value matches {
                                        DV_PROPORTION matches {
                                                numerator matches {|0.0..100.0|}
                                                is_integral matches {False}
                                                type matches {2}
                                        }
                                }
                        }
                }
        }

ontology
        term_definitions = <
                ["de"] = <
                        items = <
                                ["at0000"] = <
                                        text = <"*Ambient oxygen(en)">
                                        description = <"*The amount of oxygen being delivered to the subject at the time of observation.  Assumed values of 21% O2, Fi02 of 0.21 and Oxygen flow rate of zero.(en)">
                                >
                                ["at0051"] = <
                                        text = <"*Oxygen flow rate(en)">
                                        description = <"*Flow rate of inspired oxygen.(en)">
                                >
                                ["at0052"] = <
                                        text = <"*FiO2(en)">
                                        description = <"*Fraction of inspired oxygen.(en)">
                                >
                                ["at0053"] = <
                                        text = <"*Percent O2(en)">
                                        description = <"*Percentage of inspired oxygen.(en)">
                                >
                        >
                >
                ["en"] = <
                        items = <
                                ["at0000"] = <
                                        text = <"Ambient oxygen">
                                        description = <"The amount of oxygen being delivered to the subject at the time of observation.  Assumed values of 21% O2, Fi02 of 0.21 and Oxygen flow rate of zero.">
                                >
                                ["at0051"] = <
                                        text = <"Oxygen flow rate">
                                        description = <"Flow rate of inspired oxygen.">
                                >
                                ["at0052"] = <
                                        text = <"FiO2">
                                        description = <"Fraction of inspired oxygen.">
                                >
                                ["at0053"] = <
                                        text = <"Percent O2">
                                        description = <"Percentage of inspired oxygen.">
                                >
                        >
                >
        >



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